NWOG Coin Night / Coin Race Event

[Mechman]

I'd say that's one rule we can't touch - it's one of the fundamentals of the race!!
People with more friends around the world or people planning long trips across the world would have a distinct advantage.

[hunter-killer]

We noticed Jlee put his coin in his travel bug hotel then retrieved it, then placed it in a cache west. Are we suppose to start it here, our place of origin? for us Tbay and for him Marathon? Can we place it in a cache that we own, then take it to Minneapolis? Just wondering, not quite sure how this works.

[Mechman]

I was under the impression that we had to drop it in a cache and then leave it there and see what happens.  Once it is dropped in a cache in ontario, you are hands off, it's fate is up to others. Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that is the rules...otherwise I'd have had a different strategy all together. 

Here are the rules I see were broken...

# Participating cachers are not permitted to move any of the coins, (including their own, once placed in a cache), or interfere with their progress in any way.
# Movement of a coin by a relative, friend, or business associate is prohibited.

We'll need to come up with some consequences....I'll throw one out to get us started....I say a restart for both Pnutbeagle and jleecolins coins.  Bring them back to Ontario, and mileage will start from there.  Comments??

[hunter-killer]

So the coin starts somewhere with zero mileage?  Just trying to understand this. Do We have to start it at it's home location, IE. In our cache in Thunder Bay, to say YES this coin is from Thunder Bay, then put it in another cache elsewhere? We have been putting off placing these coins based on what we have seen. Can it be Minnesota? or is it in Nor Western Ontario only with zero mileage?  I read it as Nor Western Ontario start, with no family or friend interjection and have zero distance before the race,  but then seen Jlee and Pnutbeaggle put it in caches in Marathon and then  moved each others in to Manitoba, So then we tried to read between the lines, maybe we are not understanding this, then well, that's were we always over think things, then get confused. Did they understand the rules or is it us not understanding them ? Then again we are the same people that did not understand the rules for the spring cache challenge.

I think We will just drive west and place them somewhere, Whether we were suppose to start it here in Thunder Bay or not, It's going Zero Millage into a cache west of Thunder Bay and let fate and luck take over.

Bad brain

[hunter-killer]

Road Trip just ok'd by the beast (according to dead snake) . Woohoo go west young coin

[JungleBus]

I thought it had to start in Ontario?  Wasn't that the rule? 

[Mechman]

Yes it has to start in Ontario, but there were no restrictions where in Ontario.
Mile 0 is the first cache it is dropped into.  Once put into a cache you can not touch it.
So H-K, you can not bringing it to Minnesota.  Once it leaves your hands in it's first cache (somewhere in Ontario - could be Toronto - like wandering man is doing) that's it.  But he has to start mile 0 in Toronto.  He can not log it into a cache here in TB first and then bring it there.  That would violate the moving your own coin rule.

I'm guessing that jleecollins was not clear on this rule, and that is why he logged them into Marathon and then brought them to Winnipeg.  Punishment shall be severe!! 

[Wandering_Man]

Right, I was working under the assumption that anywhere in Ontario is fine, but has to be zero mileage when dropped and then its hands off from that point. I'm getting ready to drop mine tomorrow in the Toronto area, and see where it goes. It will have zero mileage when I drop it.

[jleecollins]

Here are my thoughts on this:

1) Either I didn't see or forgot about the deposit in an Ontario cache.  when one is looking for a new job they don't think straight.

2) We put both coins in our caches in Marathon and then took to Winnipeg to put in a cache there to start the race.  So the geocoins have geocaching kilometres from Marathon,  But the kilometres for the NWOG race would only start from the first person to pick up the geocoins that was not family related or anyone we knew.  Anyway that it what I interpreted from the rules.  Both coins have been picked up in Winnipeg and are now moving.  So the NWOG kilometres start from where they were picked up in Winnipeg

You are lucky I was thinking of starting one coin from New Mexico but never did get down there.

Anyway there you have it.

[hunter-killer]

I'm guessing that jleecollins was not clear on this rule, and that is why he logged them into Marathon and then brought them to Winnipeg.  Punishment shall be severe!! 

Punishment?  I say burn him at the stake!!!!!  Oh wait wrong century. How bout I hoof him in the nuts the next time he swings by Thunder Bay (once or twice), then we call it square? Sounds like a misunderstanding of the rules. Been there done that.

[shroomAzoom]

I think Mech's suggestion to allow Jim and Brenda to restart their coins in an Ontario cache is a fair compromise between "I didn't pay attention to the rules, there you have it" and "burn them at the stake." 

The way I see it, the rules were broken. Not reading or remembering them isn't an excuse for not following them. To be fair not only to Jim and Brenda, but to everyone else who did read and follow the posted and discussed rules, those coins should be DQ'd.

Too bad Ragbag, the instigator of this race, wasn't around this month to tell us what to do. That'd make it easier.

[jleecollins]

It would be hard to restart the coins we put out - one is in Manitoba somewhere being moved and the other is in Alberta

Jim

[Mechman]

I know we are not supposed to contact people that have our coins once they pick them up, however I was wondering if we can come to a consensus on here as to the possibility - and perhaps a standard message that we can send out to someone that has held onto the coin for a period of time without dropping it.

What would be the time period? 2 weeks?

Potential standard message (to be sent by someone else other than the cacher who's coin is stalled)-

According to geocaching.com you are in possession of a Norwest Ontario Geocachers Coin (Coin #).
The record shows you picked it up at cache XXX on Date, 2009.
This coin is part of a geocoin race.
The owner of this coin has asked me to contact you and request that you place it in cache within the next few days.
If you have put it in a cache and forgot log it in as "dropped" at the particular cache please log it in to the cache.
Please reply to me (and not the owner) as to the status of this coin, so I can relay it to the owner.

How's that sound?
Comments?

[hunter-killer]

Maybe some mention as to why the owner themselves cannot contact them ? Due to the rules of the race? 2 weeks is reasonable,especially in the summer months, people are on the move and out caching, but another twist is, what if it was dropped off at a cache that see's only  a few visitors a year, Could we contact the cache owner to ask him to move it along or is that the fate part of the race? It's in a cache and NOT in a persons possession?

[ragbag]

Although I am not in town, I am not totally out of the picture.  The intent of the rule was that the coin would be dropped off in any cache in Ontario, and its milage would start from there.  The coin was not to be moved by the owner after that. 
As for Jim and Brenda's coins, I would suggest that we calculate their milage from the cache in Manitoba where they first dropped them off.  I wouldn't like to see them disqualified...  Any comments?